See and Say With Appreciation
Dr. Ari Tuckman is a PsyD, CST is a psychologist and certified sex therapist with a private practice in West Chester, PA. He specializes in helping adults, children, and teens with ADHD. Dr. Tuckman is also a certified sex and couples therapist. He is the author of ADHD After Dark: Better Sex Life, Better Relationship; Understand Your Brain, Get More Done: The ADHD Executive Functions Workbook; More Attention, Less Deficit: Success Strategies for Adults with ADHD; and Integrative Treatment for Adult ADHD: A Practical, Easy-To-Use Guide for Clinicians.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Dr. Ari Tuckman talks about his research on ADHD in relationships and what the diagnosis means
How can ADHD impact your relationship?
Why appreciation is a powerful motivator in a relationship
Dr. Tuckman discusses key signs to avoid resentment: see and say
The importance of fostering appreciation in the face of rejection
What steps can you take to prioritize showing appreciation to your partner?
Dr. Tuckman and Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings share examples to show appreciation
In this episode…
Are you looking for strategies to make your relationship better? What steps can you take to avoid neglect and feelings of rejection in your relationship when you’ve been diagnosed with ADHD?
ADHD can make creating and preserving bonds and relationships difficult. Rejection and dysphoria can leave you feeling unappreciated — but Dr. Ari Tuckman has strategies for adults with ADHD to make things easier. By understanding how better to execute functions, education, and effective methods, you can create a better love and appreciation for yourself and your partner. Are you ready to start?
In this episode of Our.Love Podcast, join Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings as she speaks with Dr. Ari Tuckman, PsyD, CST, and author of ADHD After Dark: Better Sex Life, Better Relationship, to discuss appreciation as a motivator to see and say your way to a better relationship. Dr. Tuckman talks about the innovative research behind his work with ADHD, cultivating gratitude, and strategies to maintain a healthier relationship.
Resources Mentioned in this episode
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This episode is brought to you by “Our.Love Company.”
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Episode Transcript
Intro 0:03
Welcome to Our.Love Podcast, where we share insights from top scientists and relationship experts on all things about love that are out of the box, refreshing and new. Now sit back, grab a cold drink or hot one if you prefer, and enjoy today's episode.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 0:31
Hi all this is Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings, Co-host of Our.Love Podcast, where we visit with top experts in all things relationships. Today I'll be talking with Dr. Ari Tuckman, a prolific writer, international presenter and expert in the field of ADHD. I will also add that our he's a licensed clinical psychologist, a certified sex therapist, and a prolific writer. His fourth book just came out ADHD After Dark, Better Sex Life, Better Relationship. Today, we'll be discussing his research his book, and the love skill of appreciation. What is appreciation? And how can you start practicing appreciation to help improve your relationship?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 1:12
So welcome, Ari. It is awesome to be here. I am super psyched to be here with you.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 1:19
I appreciate you being here. Indeed. Indeed.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 1:23
Great to see you. I was actually thinking about when the last time we saw each other. And I think it was maybe a Chad conference in the Bay Area.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 1:30
He was. He was Yeah. So Chad, that big ADHD organization. So yeah, we that was the conference. And we were there. And then we went and saw some stand up, which was or some improv, which was super cool.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 1:43
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm ready to talk with you today. And we'll do a lot of Yes. And indeed, yes. And
Dr. Ari Tuckman 1:49
we well,
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 1:50
yeah. Was it maybe 10 years ago? Or
Dr. Ari Tuckman 1:54
maybe, yeah, everything feels like 10 years ago, evil always yesterday said yes. We'll go with 10 years.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 2:00
Yeah, to place our listeners sort of in time and place word in our 22nd month of the COVID 19 pandemic. And so yeah, Time moves a little bit differently, doesn't it? It does.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 2:13
Yeah, it does.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 2:14
And a lot has changed. I think since I saw you last I got myself some readers. So occasionally, I'll be on and off with my, I call them my my old lady glasses. I'm really, I'm really, really glad you're here. I finished your book last week. And I love your writing. reading your writing is like talking to you. It's such it's done in such a conversational style, super informative. Lots of information. And I like the way you develop your chapters. You can read them non sequentially, which is really cool. But I also like that you pack a ton of research information in, but then follow it up at the end with bullet points of kind of the most important things on that topic, which I can imagine is a great read for anyone but especially people who have ADHD, it allows them to go to the end of the chapter and read the bullet points, and then go back and read more about a certain topic. Anyway, I really, really enjoyed the book. I'm wondering what inspired the book? Why now?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 3:15
Sure. Yeah. So, you know, I've been working with ADHD for like, 20 years, and a lot of it has been the standard stuff, right? Of how do you stay on top of the demands in your life, be more organized, be more on time, set priorities, all that and that is all good, stop worthy, worthy topics. But I really have become like over the last five or 10 years kind of more and more interested in how ADHD impacts relationships, right, mostly among between kind of romantic partners, but really also like family relationships. And it really does have an effect. And you know, there's there's some folks out there doing some really good stuff in ADHD and relationships that actually that's not true. There's a very small number of people doing really, there's not that many there's not enough people, right? So, um, but there's really nobody, who was looking at how does ADHD impact a couple's sex life or even frankly, an individual's, you know, sexuality. And yet, this is such a big part of life of relationships. It's a thing that connects us when it goes well. And we feel good, and we enjoy each other more. And it makes it easier to deal with like, the annoying, mundane nonsense of life. And yet it is such a source of discontent in distance when it doesn't go well. And they felt like as sort of a society. We weren't talking about this enough. I mean, all the couples were talking about it at home all the time, not effectively, but probably a lot. But as clinicians, like we're missing this massive opportunity, right? Like, here's this really important thing. Here's this really powerful way to shift what happens in a couple's relationship and we're not we're not thinking about it. We're not talking about it. We're just leaving that lever unplulled so to speak.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 5:02
And you didn't look to anyone's research, you went out and did your own research. I'm assuming there wasn't any research there.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 5:08
Yeah, there was no surge to look at. So as with many things, like, surely somebody has done research, you're like, Oh, now, turns out not. So. Yeah. Like there was really no research out there on it. So So I did my own, I put together a survey. And I put it up on Survey Monkey, and I went completely crazy and wrote way, way too many questions. But despite my terrible judgment on I got like, at the time, 3000 folks to respond, I think it's probably like four or 5000 at this point. But and I think they it speaks for a couple things, I think. One is the fact that people were really, really interested in this. And they wanted to be a part of it, they wanted to contribute. They wanted to learn something from it, and I set it up so that they would learn something from it. I think it also speaks to the fact that a bunch of great friends in the world of ADHD who would like put the word out there like, Hey, Ari's doing this survey? You should, you know, click on it. So, you know, so we got the word out, and people responded, and and I think it's awesome to have real research, like real data, not just me making stuff up at the office, which I'm happy to do. But like it's nice to have real data to speak from.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 6:20
Yeah, yeah. So for people who might be listening that don't know a lot about ADHD, can you just speak a little bit to what is ADHD? And then maybe also speak to if you think you might have ADHD? Or you think your partner might have ADHD? What's the next step?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 6:39
Sure so so first of all, ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, it's sometimes called ADD, meaning Attention Deficit Disorder without any of the h four hyperactivity, technically, they're kind of the same thing. They're just subtypes of ADHD, whatever. But folks with ADHD tend to struggle with things like time management, they tend to run late, they tend to underestimate how long things take, they tend to get distracted and off task. Big procrastinators. trouble getting things done misplace things forgetful, get distracted during reading during class lectures during business meetings during I don't know talking to their partner. You know, just sort of like all of that. Now, granted, none of us are perfect, and we all have our moments. But folks with ADHD have a lot more of those moments. Typically, if you're a kid with ADHD, assuming you survive into adulthood, you become an adult who has ADHD world is different in an adult, as an adult and as a kid. But, you know, like the same struggles remain. There's a lot of genetics to ADHD. So if you are related to someone who has ADHD, you may want to consider like, pause for a moment to reflect. A lot of adults these days are getting diagnosed through their kids and what I call the two for one diagnosis.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 8:02
That goes in gets diagnosed, and the parent reads the report and says, Oh, that's kind of like me.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 8:08
Yeah, about that. That sounds familiar. So, um, you know, if you think that maybe there's some ADHD there, I think it's worth taking a look at. I mean, I'm kind of biased on it, but but like you think it is, um, and there's different ways to do it. I mean, there are people who do these big testing batteries, I have to admit, I'm not a fan of big testing batteries. Um, if you want accommodations for your kid at schools, federal law requires you do testing. But if you're an adult in the world, who wants to make your life better? You don't need to drop five grand on a neuropsychological testing battery, not helpful, not necessary. Really, what's helpful is a good interview. Let's talk about your life. How are you doing your life these days? How do you do at home versus at work? What about the job before this? What about back in college or grad school? If you went What about high school, middle school elementary, talk about family history, right? So you're looking not just for the presence of ADHD, but also to not you're looking to make sure there isn't some other thing that better explains it. Um, a lot of women tend to be while a lot of adults are not being diagnosed with ADHD, but women especially are being misdiagnosed with stuff like anxiety and depression, which indeed they have. But some of that anxiety and depression is the fact that they're struggling to stay up on everything in their life. So the ADHD is driving some of that anxiety and depression it sort of hides it. And a clinician who does not think about ADHD will see the anxiety and depression and stop there. So if you think there's some ADHD, you might have to kind of press a little bit you might have to find a clinician who really understands it more than whoever you happen to be seeing is still too many clinicians who treat adults don't know ADHD well.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 9:56
Yeah, yeah. In that. This might be even just a simple yes or no question. I know you're not a medical doctor who would prescribe medication. But what's your feeling about medication for ADHD? Yes, no, maybe definitely explore it.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 10:09
I'm a big proponent of medication for ADHD. I'm not a big, big meds guy in general. But I'm for ADHD. Yes, I am. And the reason is, ADHD makes your life harder in many, many ways, when it's not well managed. medication for ADHD is helpful in many, many ways. Like, it's not perfect, it's not magic. Sometimes you got to, you know, mess around with different doses and different, try different ones and whatever. But generally speaking, they really work quite well, they are not addictive, like they really are not. Um, and as much as one might have some concerns about what are the risks of taking a medication, especially perhaps in the long term? You know, we also need to consider the other side of this, which is untreated ADHD has big significant impact, certainly, in terms of relationship satisfaction for both partners, but also, some, frankly, rather kind of scary research on things like estimated life expectancy, right? How long do you live healthy years. Um, and, you know, partly, that's because the, you know, healthy habits are kind of boring, and needs to be done consistently, which is exactly what folks with ADHD struggle most on. So it is not just about taking a pill so you can pay attention better in a work meeting or something. It's also about, I don't know, doing follow regular annual checkups with your regular doctor, it's about, you know, eating a healthy diet and exercise and all the other stuff that we all should be doing a good job on in order to live long, healthy, happy lives, and, frankly, to be good partners, to our partner wants to keep around for a long time.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 11:45
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned some research around ADHD and relationship satisfaction. Can you speak more about that?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 11:55
Sure. So, you know, one of the things we do know is that ADHD again, especially when it's not well managed, it has a negative effect on the partner with ADHD, right? Their ability to be the partner that they want to be right, I want to be consistent, I want to be predictable. If he asked me to do stuff, I want to be able to do it. But it also affects the non ADHD partner, in the sense of like, I don't want to be a control freak. I don't want to be on your case all the time. Why do I always have to be the one who does everything? Right. So like, that sort of balance that workload balance between partners, right, like, that's a universal, every couple has to figure that stuff out. But when ADHD isn't well managed, it makes it really that much harder, especially when it's the guy who has ADHD, you know, like, typically, not always, but typically, then the woman steps up more, does more this share, which makes sense why she would, but then she's burned down and resentful. And people don't want to have sex with people, when they're burned down and resentful, at least not the person that resentful they might want to have sex with other people and not were the person that resentful towards right. So, um, so it absolutely then affects how the two people get along with each other. Also, by the way, if your partner has been sniping and griping at you all day, again, you might be interested in sex, but not with them. Right. So, um, you know, so like, that is a common, you know, unhappy place that these couples wind up, especially when ADHD hasn't been identified, when it's not being well managed, when they're not working well together as a team.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 13:33
So, oh, I have so many different ways I want to go. And it's so it's so it's so hard. Let me just take a slight turn towards the love scale of appreciation. I think about the things that you describe that go on in a couple with ADHD, maybe low motivation, poor time management, impulsivity, lack of focus. To me, it seems like a lot of things would interfere with the ability to appreciate. Yeah, so so let's actually start, can we maybe start with, do you have a working definition of appreciation? And if you don't, I've got what love.com has to say about it.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 14:17
Let me make something up and then tell me then grade my test. Okay, got it. Okay. So, you know, I think when it comes to appreciation, like first thing to think about is appreciation is the thing we feel within ourselves. Right? Like I am appreciative of the fact that you invited me on this podcast. Right. So I am appreciative.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 14:35
I am appreciative that you are here. Thank you.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 14:42
Awesome. So right. So first, it's it's a thing we feel within ourselves about something that the other person is doing. Then hopefully we're expressing we're sharing. We're acknowledging we're making known that appreciation. And, you know, I think the impact For couples where one person is ADHD is that the partner who has ADHD might, might be appreciative of like, I, I appreciate all those things you were doing for me, or I appreciate all those ways that you're awesome in our relationship, but I may forget to say it. Or, alternatively, they might be sort of distracted and kind of caught up in other things and not realized, like all those amazing things. So like, I was talking to a couple today, where I was asking the guy like, you know, do you misplace things? And he said, No, I mean, sometimes I misplaced my wallet. And his wife is like, I'm putting his wallet and keys in the right place all the time. Right? He didn't know, to appreciate that she was doing something worth being appreciated about, you know what I mean? So, so that then it can set up a situation where then the non ADHD partner feels like I work so hard to do all these things, you don't even appreciate it? Why am I bothering, um, or appreciation is sort of, let's just say undone by bad behavior. Right. So she's again, sniping and griping at him, he's not going to be appreciative of the things that she does do, because it's sort of you know, it doesn't sadly, it doesn't take a whole lot of bad behavior to undo a bunch of good behavior. So, um, so yeah, I think that honor now, I sort of wandered away from the question, How did I do that appreciation?
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 16:21
You're good. I'm going to give you a solid A. And it's interesting, because you brought up the two things that really stand out to me about appreciation that are very simplistic, but I think so powerful are see and say, Ah, right, so you have to see it. Yep. Right. And that's where maybe the attention gets into trouble gets you into trouble, or any of us ADHD or not ADHD. And then you have to say it, which again, I could see where some attentional stuff or focus stuff could interfere. Yeah. So see, and,
and and say, um, can we talk a little bit about reactions? Sensitivity? dysphoria? Yeah. Can you define that for us? And then, and then I also I sort of, yeah, well, let's just start that you need to find out.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 17:08
Let me go back, but I promise you, I'll remember our see and say. So in terms of the same as saying, so one of the things I asked in the survey was, um, rate, how much effort you put in on managing your or your partner's ADHD rate, how much effort your partner is putting in. Now, of course, everybody will not be surprised to hear everybody rated themselves as putting in more effort in their partner putting in less effort, which mathematically does not actually add up, right, like that math does not work. So part of part of it is, it's the seeing, right, like I see every single thing I do, because I was there when it happened. There's a lot of stuff my wife does, I never see, right?
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 17:53
Well, like the wife, you were just describing who puts the keys in the wallet in the place, he didn't know she was doing that.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 17:59
Exactly. So she can't get credit for what he doesn't even know about. Now, it's not granted, it's not about like scoring points, but like, we do pay attention to fairness like we do. If I feel like I'm working harder than you are, I'm going to be a little bit pissy about it. So, um, so part of this is, is having some of these conversations are really making an effort to like, look for what our partner is doing, including noticing the absence of things. So you may not notice the kitchens clean, but you would notice the kitchen is a mess, right? So realizing like, oh, there were things that happened here, people ate things on plates and, you know, cups and stuff, but they're all gone. Right. So like, sometimes we see the presence more than the absence of something. Um, so I think the seeing is not simply in a passive way I happen to notice but rather, I will actively look for
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 18:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Great, great point. I can I interject a fun story about that. So I've been married for over 25 years, and, and somewhere along the line, we got into some routine, about one of us would do a big cleanup in the kitchen, but the other person wouldn't notice. So in order to help the other person notice, we and we still do this, this has been 20 some years of this, we will sort of be the other person comes from a workflow whip our hand around say, oh, look around, right and the other person sort of comes to and says, Oh, you claim the chin Thank you, which is also an interesting piece about appreciation in that if the other person doesn't see or look, you could point out which i i would love to get back to can we backtrack on that?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 19:45
I think about what about this look around thing that you guys do is you do wonder in a funny joking way, right? You could be pissy and resentful but here we are. Yet again. Remember, see this? You know what I did all day? Right? No, we're pre sadly like you did all the work. He got none of the appreciation because now what your husband is thinking is, uh, you're such a pain. Right? As opposed to making it a joking thing right now you're connecting together and you actually get the benefit of the appreciation.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 20:16
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we always end up giggling about it. Hmm, yeah. Can we go back to the rst? Yeah, yeah, cuz, because I think it might also have something to do with appreciating and being appreciated.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 20:32
Yeah, so. Um, so RSP stands for rejection sensitive dysphoria. And dysphoria is basically a fancy word for kind of a bad feeling. Um, so RST is it's kind of it's a bit of a new idea in the world of ADHD, but it's it describes this experience that folks with ADHD tend to have a bit more often, which is, in the face of rejection, or criticism or some sort of, you know, event that happens that kind of puts them in a bad light, or they feel like someone has a bad feeling towards them. This strong, strong negative emotional response comes really quick, pretty intense. might come to pass quickly, perhaps a bit. Not. But, um, but yeah, I mean, it's just sort of, it's a little bit neurological, in the sense of, you can almost think of it as a bit of emotional impulsivity, it's just that this kind of strong negative feeling kind of like takes over how that person feels. Um, so it is a part of ADHD for some people, perhaps more than others. But, um, you know, but I think the appreciation part of it is, I mean, this is kind of easy to say, but kind of fostering, fostering appreciation within a relationship, right, recognizing each other's good qualities, verbalizing them, showing them, you know, doing something in relation to it. And, you know, hopefully, that sets a bit of a better foundation, as opposed if there's a little bit kind of like slow burn intention. It's just really easy to go to more negative place, whether it's an RSD moment, or, you know, what any of us might experience?
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 22:11
Do you think it's possible? Or maybe, you know, some research out there that I'm unaware of, but do you think it's possible that people with ADHD might need more appreciation? Because of the RSD? Like, they might? Well, well, maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe it's fair to say maybe it's also I mean, let's think about it. If you have ADHD, and it's been undiagnosed, and untreated, you've probably lived a long life of your parents on your case, because you haven't cleaned up your room, your teachers on your case, because you're not living up to your potential, your wife on your case, because you keep leaving the dirty laundry, on the floor. So yeah, I wonder, do you have any thoughts about that?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 22:52
No, I think that's absolutely true. I mean, you know, again, especially if it's if it hasn't been diagnosed, it hasn't been well managed on kids with ADHD, adults with ADHD, get a lot more negative feedback from parents and teachers, or in the case of adults, from friends, from bosses, from romantic partners. Because if you're not doing the thing that other people are expecting of you, in that moment, people tend to have thoughts about it. And, you know, it's one thing if it's simply, I'm disappointed that you didn't do that thing. As opposed to what is wrong with you, that you didn't do that, right. Because the first one is, it is that situation of the moment, as opposed to there's something wrong with you, is really a much more enduring, this is who I am. And, you know, folks have ADHD a little is this. Now, this may not be true, but I'll say like, especially maybe a bit more. So women with ADHD, who feel a bit more kind of social pressure to kind of, you know, be considerate, and be a good friend and be a good student, and whatever their boys, you know, like they, it's easy to internalize that and just sort of read in that I'm the person who doesn't do what people hope. Therefore, I have to work harder to earn just the standard appreciation that other people get.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 24:15
And I could imagine in a couples therapy session, you have one individual with ADHD, who has maybe had a whole life of all of this negative input, and being able to talk with the couple to talk with the other partner in particular about what that must have been like, or continues to be like, for that ADHD partner, in order to sort of flip the framework from he's not doing that he's not doing that. And then he did this and he always does X, Y, and Z, are you? Oh, maybe appreciating and noticing some of the times that he does hang up the towel or the time. Let's get right or the time you did plan a great date night or whatever.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 24:57
Yeah, yeah. And I think you know, the appreciation part of that is to sort of recognize that if your partner has ADHD and they're doing something, maybe it's not as good as you would have done it, or in the way that you would have done it, but maybe that took a lot of effort for them. Um, so, you know, or I'm going to steal line for a friend of mine, Jessica McCabe, where she was talking about, like, keeping her apartment nude or not. And she was like, This is me trying. Right? Like, it's not as good as her roommate, does it. But for her, this is pretty damn good. Right? So I think it and that's just like a basic universal relationship idea of don't judge your partner's efforts based on what it's like for you, you know, because the stuff we're good at? Easy, of course, you should just do that. Right. But for a partner, it may not be so easy. So even if the outcome isn't as good as you would have hoped for, you know, what was the intention? What was the effort that was put in? I think that's often a thing that gets missed. And that is definitely a place as you said, to see to look, yeah, no, and to acknowledge and say something.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 26:08
When you mentioned the word effort, it made me think of this quote in your book, and you say it a couple of times you say effort is an aphrodisiac? Yes. Yeah. Can you speak a little bit about that? I thought that was so interesting.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 26:23
I think effort counts for a lot. You know, like, Okay, fine. There's lots of places where, you know, outcome matters. But, but especially when it comes to relationship effort matters a lot, right? Like, if I feel like you tried hard, I'm going to be much more appreciative and much more forgiving. On the other hand, if I feel like you sort of half assed it, like you didn't really care, and that's why it didn't work out, well. I'm going to be a bit doubly disappointed, you know. And the challenge, though, is for all of us, right, we look to actions, to infer intention, and look at what you do, I run it through my filter, and then I assume what your intent was. And, you know, I sometimes say ADHD is a disorder of converting intentions into actions. So folks with ADHD tend to have negative assumptions made about their intentions, and frankly, their character. You know, you just don't care about people. That's why you always run late. As opposed to, you are really bad at tracking time. You easily get distracted. you misjudge how long things take. That's why you're late. Really? You're gonna have a very different feeling about that person being late if you have one interpretation over the other.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 27:38
Yeah. What's the book? Lazy? Stupid?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 27:41
Yeah. You mean? I'm not lazy, stupid or crazy? Yeah, one of the old old books on ADHD. Nailed it. Exactly.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 27:47
Yep. Yep. Yep. Um, I went and did a tiny bit of research with about 10 friends and colleagues, not the kind of research you did, did not run this through any analytics. I'm going to pull this up on my phone. This was the number one question asked by women in again, 10 women in heterosexual couples, I bet you could probably anticipate what the question is. Almost all of them actually said, Oh, ask this question. Cool. How can I get my spouse to show appreciation for me without having to remind him to do this again? And again? And again?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 28:35
Right. Yeah. So. Okay, so first of all, um, as much as it's annoying enough to ask for it. If they if you get if you go poke poke, and then he gives you some, that's good. Like, let's, let's give a partial, you know, like,
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 28:52
look around, look in the kitchen. Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 28:54
Right. So if they respond, well, give them some credit for it. Right. So maybe they suck at noticing, but they're good at showing appreciation. Um, and, you know, so that's kind of my first thought, um, but I guess, you know, the other thought that I would have is to kind of talk to the guy about like, look, this is important to me, it means something to me, not just that you show the appreciation, but that you take the initiative on it that I don't need to like extract it out of you. And it's part of what makes me feel why I'm important to you, and the relationship is important to you. And it's not that everything else isn't Oh, yeah, by the way. Thanks, honey. Looks good.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 29:34
Right, right. I don't know if you use this I would assume that you do. I often use with ADHD couples and non ADHD couples reminders on the phone as an external memory harddrive. So a reminder that pops up every morning that says, look around the kitchen, or a reminder that might pop up at night that says, look for one thing that you can show appreciation for Any other tools that you might use in this sort of helping a couple, really hone in on that look and say or see and say?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 30:12
I mean, I think that, that yeah, having some sort of external, right like that, which is just the basic idea of managing ADHD, but frankly, it's just a good idea for all of us, right? Like, don't hold it all in your head do not rely on Oh, I can't remember it, or I forgot it. Yeah, set up reminders, however, it is that you deal with it, create some sort of external reminder. Um, and, you know, like, so that's the first half is to being aware of it. Because if we're not aware that nothing happens, then the second half is actually do it. By which I mean, no, seriously, like, actually do it. Right. When you see the reminder? Don't say, Oh, I'll do that later. Right. Yeah. Which means I'll never do it. So, you know, some of that, is that kind of biting the bullet? And this is really easy to say, um, but but, you know, there is kind of that idea of like, am I committed to this? Is this actually important to me? Is this a priority? Do I want to make this happen? Um, and that might be a thing that you have to think about, frankly, you know, like, Is this really a thing that's important to me it? Does this fit for me? Do I feel okay about it? Are there other bigger issues that need to be addressed within the relationship? Are there things that you just need to sort of accept about your partner your situation, right, so like, it's not done or No, it's not just a cosmic top 10 list, but, but it's certainly a thing to think about. If you're struggling with it, then that is a good thing to think about.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 31:40
Yeah. Yeah. How would this topic of appreciation? I'm, I'm thinking about, I don't know if you've ever played this game, at the Chinese food restaurant where you open the fortune cookie, and you read the fortune cookie? And then afterwards you say in bed? Sure. Yeah. Oh, good. This is this is a game that other people play. This is not just my family.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 32:02
Why are you so perverted?
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 32:04
So So I'm thinking about that right? Dadada in bed? Yeah. What about? What about appreciation in bed? What's your, you know? What's your thought about that? Whether or not Yeah, ADHD related or not? Because I think what, you know, if we zoom out so much of what you're talking about, is clearly ADHD related, but it's helpful for any couple. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 32:27
Oh, yeah. Take ADHD, and it's all the same. So it's just ADHD is just more, so more, more of the same. So? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. When it comes to sexual stuff. So, you know, early in a relationship, sex is easy, probably because, you know, every time we get together, we both want it. And it's good, right? You don't have to work hard, you don't have to do anything, it just shows up. Once you've been together for a while, and life gets hard and boring, and complicated, and stressful, and just whatever, right? Like, it takes a bit more effort sometimes. And a very common thing is that both people are not equally interested in fooling around at that point. Um, that doesn't mean anything is broken, it doesn't mean that their problem, it just means, you know, same thing at the same time. Um, but this is where appreciation comes in. So, you know, if your partner is appreciative of things that have happened before that moment, they're a lot more likely to be generous and say, Yeah, I'll take one for the team. Let's see what we can do here. Um, and if you've been kind of a jerk, or whatever, right, like, No, thanks. Tired, right? So, but it also goes the other way, which is, you know, your partner being generous in bed, if you're, if you have any brains at all, right means that you're a whole lot better behaved the next day, right? And you will act in generous team, Team Player kind of ways, um, and that this is really important that, you know, and this was one of the things that came out in my survey, not surprisingly, is the couples who were really happy with each other, one of the things that they endorsed is they're much more likely to be sexually generous when they themselves were not in the mood. And, okay, fine, that's about sex. But it's really about lots of other things in relationships to that ability to kind of see beyond your own situation, the ability to be generous in giving in some sort of a way, whatever it is, when that's the thing that your partner wants, and it's if it's freely given, right, it's not this thing of I have to have sex or my partner is going to be pissy tomorrow, because that's not freely given and not fun. And frankly, if you're the person getting that sex, like, I can't believe you're really loving it either. So, um, you know, but rather, it's like, I am making this choice like, have my own free will. I see. This is a good thing. I'm happy to do it. I'm willing to do it. Here we go.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 34:52
Yeah, again, back to that effort. Right Effort and association. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm wondering if you'd be willing to play play a quick game with me tell you what it is first.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 35:04
Now, okay, surprising and interesting. Okay?
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 35:08
So I want to see and I think this will be pretty easy. I want to see if we can go back and forth. I'll try to keep a tally put on my glasses. I want to swing, go back and forth and come up with 10 ways that we might show our partner appreciation. And I'm going to start with you want to start? Um, no, you'd start us off, set the frame. Okay, I'm going to do a super easy one. And I think actually, that this is the one that everyone thinks of, and then they stop. They don't see 910 20 Other ones later. This one's super easy, saying, Thank you. Whoo. That
Dr. Ari Tuckman 35:49
That is a good one. Grandma would be so proud of you. No, I know, wouldn't she? Yeah, see, I was thinking like, backdrop or something. Oh, okay. There we go to excellent. Um
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 36:02
Oh, apologizing, I think saying I'm sorry. And taking accountability and responsibilities. A way to show appreciation. I appreciate your feelings. And I am sorry.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 36:12
Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It takes some guts to own it. So, yeah, how about I don't know. Bring your partner a cup of coffee or a drink or a glass of water or some other nice deed? Yep.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 36:25
Yep. Gifts, that level of gift giving? Yep. Good. Ah. I don't know if you're gonna let me I don't know if you're gonna let me count this one. Because it's a little bit like saying thank you. But writing a note. Yeah. of appreciation. It's a little bit different. Right. And it might not even say thank you. It might just be I love you so much. I miss you. Thank you. Thank you, or I'm grateful for your way with that one.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 36:55
No, that's that's a different thing. Because the saying is cool. And they doing something is cool. Like they're both they're cool in different ways. Yeah. So yeah. Alright, we're just saying, Alright, we're just sending a nice text. Right, which could be just thinking of you. It could be hope your day is going good. Or how was that crappy meeting you had? Or can't wait to rip your clothes off? Or right. I don't know. Lots of stuff.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 37:25
Yeah, yeah. I think it's your turn. Although you said so many things right there. I think maybe you got us up to like, maybe eight. But
Dr. Ari Tuckman 37:33
now, those are just variations on the same idea sending a nice text, or your texts in the middle of the day? Um, yeah. So I think I don't know isn't in your return.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 37:43
Okay, if you're okay. I said writing a note. You said sending a taxi. I'll put them in action. All right, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Well, you said this one in the texting example, but I'm gonna pull it out in that would be taking an interest in the other person's life. So asking them about their work asking them about the doctor's appointment they had that day, but just like, Yeah, you know, really concerted interest in what's going on?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 38:10
Yeah. So in other words, it's a specific, it's not just how was your day? Yeah. How was your day person I've never met and don't know anything about I just sat next to you at a bus station. How was your day, madam? But, but I remembered a thing that you told me. And I'm now doing something with it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So probably back to you. Um, I don't know, I guess kind of letting your partner pick the TV show. You watch the movie. What music goes on the speaker? You know, something like that? Like? Yeah, you can do this one.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 38:52
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sort of. Reciprocity, or there's something in there about selflessness or caring for the other person. And again, there's an attention piece to that right. Attending to Oh, you like this movie? Or I pick the last three movies. I'm going to give you a chance. Yeah. Okay, we're at eight. Is that right? Yep. Eight. So I'm nine. How about listening attentively? Yeah, that one works. Yeah, listening attentively, attentively to the other person, which I think we have done. You know, the invention of cell phones. And all the technology we have, I think is so helpful, but it can also really get in the way. Sure, yeah. Putting your phone away and just really listening attentively. Alright, volley. Back to you. You get the last word on this one.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 39:41
Ooh, all right. Um, how about ripping your partner's clothes off? I know, respectful and consensual way obviously.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 39:48
I love it. Man. That's such a great place to end. That is wonderful.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 39:53
Yeah, the other nine thing is the last thing is way more likely to happen. That's right.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 39:58
That's right. Everybody's putting and effort and and appreciating and then the lights go out. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Awesome. I really, really appreciate you being with us today. It's been really wonderful. Anything you'd like to say? Any, you want to sort of let folks know where they might be able to find you online?
Dr. Ari Tuckman 40:21
Sure. So best place to find me is my books and podcasts website, which is adultADHDbook.com. I've got a bunch of stuff on there, including recordings of old presentations that I've done on ADHD in general ADHD on relationships, sexuality, all that stuff, so I'm easy to find online. So check it out. Definitely don't reinvent the wheel.
Dr. Keely Sikes Rollings 40:43
Awesome. Great to have you take good care.
Dr. Ari Tuckman 40:46
Thanks you too.
Outro 40:47
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